As a former Wales age-grade international who came through the Welsh schools system on his way to a professional career in rugby, before landing his current role as director of rugby at Ellesmere College, it's fair to say that Alex Murphy knows a thing or two about the development of young players.
So too does Michael Owen, the former Wales captain and 2005 Grand Slam hero who now holds a similar role at another English school, Haileybury.
And so, when the pair of them were stood around chatting at Rosslyn Park Sevens last week about what they had witnessed at the world's largest schools tournament, you know that it's a conversation steeped in an understanding of all that schools rugby entails.
And yet, as two proud Welshmen, the topic of conversation that flowed most naturally was how many Welsh comprehensives had claimed the scalps of these giant independent English schools. At a time when positivity is in short supply in Welsh rugby, the conversation sounded like something of a novelty.
"I think everyone is aware of the gulf of the money, facilities and standards," Murphy tells WalesOnline. "The amount of training and opportunities boys at the independent schools get
"But I was absolutely gobsmacked by the Rosslyn Park 7s. Even in other tournaments this year, I saw Bryn Celynnog in the Solihull 7s, turning over schools far bigger than them.
"However, it really became apparent in Rosslyn Park. In the U14s, Bryn Celynnog turned over Bromsgrove School - with just over 2,000 pupils. A huge rugby school. They also turned over Sedbergh, who are seen as one of the best rugby schools in the UK.
"Later on, I saw Haverfordwest take some big scalps. I saw Ysgol Gyfan Garth Olwg beat some powerhouses (including Millfield in the U14s Cup semi-final).
"I was with Michael Owen at the time, who was there with Haileybury, and we could not believe the talent that was there. It was almost comical that these Welsh comprehensive schools were rocking up here against these English giants and, maybe out of ignorance that they didn't know who they were, turning them over through sheer bloody-mindedness.
“Of course, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with the independent school model for rugby, which I am very proud to be part of, but it just highlighted how much talent there is in Welsh schools. We just couldn't believe it. We were gobsmacked."
As good as some of the results were - with Murphy quick to add that Welsh comprehensive schools have been growing stronger in these competitions in recent years - the conversation turned to what would happen to many of the talented youngsters claiming these scalps over the border.
Naturally, many of the schools they'd just beaten would certainly be interested. Losing young talent to English colleges is by no means a new problem. As Murphy admits, "it's very, very difficult for some parents to turn down" when Welsh boys are noticed by English schools.
At times, that desperation to keep hold of what we've got has perhaps led to paranoia. WalesOnline has been told of examples of Welsh schools being penalised for looking for fixtures with English schools - with the fear being that Welsh talent would then be in the shop window for those across the border.
"If they readdressed the schools pathway, would there be a need for them to go over the bridge for that competition? I don't know, I doubt it," adds Murphy. "The question that it raised for me and Michael was where does all this talent go? Why is the system not working?
“It seems sometimes boys and parents just don’t have any option but to move to the English school set up as the WRU pathways on offer do not seem to be as successful.
"Both Mike and I came through schools rugby, before it went regional. It made us beg the question over whether going back to how things used to be run could be the answer as the Welsh rugby schools system has seen a lot of change in recent years.
"A system that once regularly produced Championship-winning national sides has slowly been eroded. The Dewar Shield has changed from U15s to U16s. That doesn't allow boys who are 16 to play for their schools if they're involved with their academies.
"You have a development officer going around the clubs and you might see them once every three weeks. The rest of the time they are being coached by someone's dad, who has selflessly given up their time to help.
"But rewind the clock and when it was done by the schools' route, you had gents looking after teams who coached them three or four times a week. It just raised so many questions about how these little comprehensives can turn over schools with boys on scholarships who are being earmarked by England already.
"Some of them were comfortable wins as well, completely dismantling these big schools. Right in front of everyone, all of these Welsh comprehensive schools were doing jobs on these private school boys who are getting rugby and S&C multiple times a week.
"It made me really proud that these Welsh schools didn't care who the English schools were. At a time when all we're getting is doom and gloom in Welsh rugby, it's really important for people to know that the future could be bright."
He adds: "We cannot ignore the fact that theses little Welsh comprehensive schools are able to turn over massive English ones, so where are they all going? Within every little comprehensive school, there's great kids and they're not coming through obviously. I believe it's since Wales put all their stock in club and regional coaching.
"Whether it's going back to a tried and tested route, as we did get something right. I was in the same cohort with Alun Wyn Jones and Jamie Roberts. Yes, we played for the regions as we got older but the emphasis was schools rugby. How can all these boys from comprehensive schools fit into four sides? There's so many things that need to be looked at. Is this why so many go missing?
"If they placed the emphasis on schools again, could they nurse them through in a more managed approach? The Welsh game is in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. But here was a bunch of 14-year-olds beating English sides and who knows?
"They need to come through now. I just want the Welsh youth structure to succeed. It needs to be more of a priority than ever, as the regions are all strapped for cash. We've just got to shepherd them through"
